[Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps

Tue Oct 29 15:31:47 UTC 2024

Hi Vince,
I’m not speaking to anyone in particular with these words. Just spouting off a bit. I can be direct sometimes, sorry if I seemed harsh. It’s the word “purist” that confounds me. What’s pure?

Yes, I agree with everything you said, I and I feel fortunate to have the facility to make my own. I just want to remember that although not everyone has that same situation, art is still art.
Paul

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> on behalf of Lis via Clayart <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 7:20:35 AM
To: clayart at lists.clayartforum.com <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
Cc: Lis <lis.allison at primus.ca>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps

I'm certainly not a purist, but as someone else said, it's all about
where you draw the line. Part of my objection to the pre-printed
underglaze transfers is that some people using them call their work
'hand made'. That, to me, implies 'hand-decorated' as well as 'made',
and I don't agree that applying purchased transfers equals
hand-decorated. If you use them creatively and they become part of a new
artistic expressions, then OK. But, in my opinion, just covering a mug
with a purchased transfer is not OK. If you use them creatively, then
they are just a tool. If you use them unchanged and with nothing else,
then they are the work.

Lis

On 2024-10-28 7:37 p.m., Paul Randall via Clayart wrote:
> To All,
> I think it is a bit pompous to condemn purchased stamps and anything not made by the artist, incorporated into one’s work. Remember Andy Warhol?
>
> What is wrong with an artist stamping numbers from purchased number blocks into their work? Remember the concept of “Found Objects” ?
>
> I collect leaves from various tress and impress them into my work. Am I a sinner for that since I didn’t make the stamp? Am I not an Artist?
>
> I use many natural stamps in my work, walnut shells in particular. I didn’t make them, but I use them in a way that is unique to me.
>
> Purist? OK, be one. I was a remodeling contractor for twenty some years, made pots on the side. Some of my customers were “Purist,” only wanted real wood, Cedar, Redwood etc. Redwood has been over farmed and on verge of depletion. No treated wood for “Purists” only the kind that rots easily and adds to global warming. Southern Yellow Pine is plentiful and when treated last for 20+ years on a deck, etc..
>
> I get it that making one's own tools and being completely “Hand Made” is desirable in craft, most of my tools and stamps I made myself. But I have a complete shop, if I need a tool, it is easy to go make one. Not everybody has that, and I certainly will not condemn them for making do and applying commercially made stamps, etc. into their work.
>
> Look at the work, then judge. Please don’t be blinded by the “Purist” ego trip.
> Paul
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ________________________________
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> on behalf of Sharon Cary via Clayart <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 1:11:07 PM
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
> Cc: Sharon Cary <scarythepotter at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>
> I Love making Bisque stamps and rollers, but sometimes you find just the right patterns that you can’t easily replicate so I also use a lot of found objects, pieces of fabric, as well as leather tools, MKM rollers, Pottery Texture Queen Mats from my dear friend Lynn Wood - usually combined together to make unique patterns on my handbuilt pieces. I also use some GR forms, but the favorites are wood forms we’ve made ourselves in my spouse’s woodworking shop.  I have also made underglaze transfers and would never buy those from others, although I’ve seen some creative applications with bits of them added to other patterns.
> All this to say we can abhor the “cookie cutter” copying but still admire the creativity that comes from the judicious use of available tools to make something unique.
>
> Have fun, Terry with your change of direction!
> I wish everyone More Clay and More Time to explore the endless ideas that won’t stop coming!
>
>
> S.Cary -
> Make something beautiful every day.
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 27, 2024, at 12:10 PM, Terry Lazaroff via Clayart <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com> wrote:
>>
>> Vince,
>> You’re not a snob, but you are a bit of a purist.
>> A purist is someone who values traditional standards, principles, or methods in their field, lifestyle, or activities. Purists tend to prioritize authenticity and fidelity to original practices, often avoiding modern adaptations that might dilute the core of what they value.
>> For example, in art, a purist might favor classical techniques over mass-produced or standardized approaches. In language, a purist may insist on using traditional grammar and vocabulary, avoiding slang or borrowed terms.
>> There’s nothing wrong with being a purist; it's about establishing a disciplined process. When we teach wheel-throwing, we break down the process into five or six steps and demonstrate the simplest method to help students learn. We know that over time, students will modify our methods to find their own, but when their approach fails, they often return to the basics to figure out what went wrong. There are many technics used in hand building that cannot be modified, thus the need to emphasize the need to follow the traditional methods.
>> It’s understandable to feel frustrated when the public sees cookie cutter items being designated as handmade. At craft shows, people often compliment my wheel work, then mention how "lucky" I am to have a hobby. Seeing my prices, they move on to booths selling less expensive cookie cutter items.
>> Before industrialization, a potter was essential to a village, crafting the bowls and cups for daily life. Today, mass-produced tableware is easily accessible, so a ceramic artist must create something special to make a sale; our cups and bowls have become “nice-to-have” items or iconic items to place on a bookshelf and never to be used.
>> Many buyers seek quality at low prices. For artists who stay in the field long enough, these cookie cutter items may serve as kiln fillers while they focus on higher-quality work.
>> This summer, I turned 81, and I’ll soon need to downsize my home and studio. I’ve decided to stop making functional ware. I’ll have one final summer exhibition, and any remaining stock will be donated to the local museum for fundraising.
>> My focus is now on sculpture. I’ve started making rubber molds of my ceramic sculptures to create bronze replicas. I’m also experimenting with 3D scanning of my small sculptures in order to enlarge them, creating 3D prints to make molds for wax models that will be taken to the foundry for further processing.
>> While this process may seem automated, I see it as a tool to realize my creative vision.
>> Terry
>> AI assisted.
>> www.lazaroff.ca<http://www.lazaroff.ca>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> on behalf of Vince Pitelka via Clayart <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2024 8:54 AM
>> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum' <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
>> Cc: vincepitelka at gmail.com <vincepitelka at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>>
>> Hi LJ -
>> You wrote:
>> "It's how those items are used that shows the creativity of the artist not whether or not the artist has made each of those tools."
>>
>> Yes, absolutely.  I just think that making some of your own tools and stamps introduces an additional level of originality to anyone's work.  I always encouraged my students to look for interesting patterned or textured objects that could be used on clay, and they were very resourceful in the forests around the Appalachian Center for Craft.  I would never say anything to discourage people from buying Rick McKinney's stamps and rollers, or any other commercially-made pattern or texture tools.  But I have also found that people are often hesitant to make their own tools because they assume that store-bought tools will be better than any they can make themselves, and that's usually not true.
>>
>> This conversation has come up many times on Clayart.  During the approximately 15 years that I wrote the Tool Times column in Clay Times magazine, a good percentage of my writing was about making your own tools.  Unfortunately, the magazines are not available for free online.  ISSUU.com has them for $5.95 per PDF copy.  As a teaser they let you leaf through the first twenty pages or so online, but not far enough to get to my column.
>>
>> Regarding bisque stamps, check out the handout on my website.  It is remarkably easy to make bisque rollers and stamps with intricate patterns and textures.  If anyone is interested, look at the "Current and Recent Work" in the gallery on my website to see some of the patterns I create with the bisque stamps and rollers I have carved.
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>> Chapel Hill, NC
>> vincepitelka at gmail.com
>> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com><http://www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>><http://www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com><http://www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>>>
>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> On Behalf Of Dragonbelly Ceramics via Clayart
>> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2024 9:25 PM
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
>> Cc: Dragonbelly Ceramics <lisa at dragonbellyceramics.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>>
>> But where do you draw the line? I use all sorts of found objects to texture pieces, from leaves from my garden to lace found at yard sales. While I do make bisque stamps, I've also purchased some rollers. Why? I'm not that skilled in carving designs.  I've even designed and 3D printed some. And I occasionally use printed letters.
>>
>> It's how those items are used that shows the creativity of the artist not whether or not the artist has made each of those tools.
>>
>> Another example: I use a strong arm centering tool to accommodate for arthritic changes in my wrists and thumbs. Without it, I can't center more than a small amount of clay before experiencing severe pain and I would have had to give up throwing a few years ago.
>>
>> I just don't believe there are hard answers for what is or is not handmade.
>>
>> Best,
>> LJ Cohen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2024, 7:06 PM Vince Pitelka via Clayart < clayart at lists.clayartforum.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Carolyn -
>>> Thanks for that message.  As much as I admire Rick McKinney and others
>>> who have created all sorts of pattern and texture tools for ceramics,
>>> I've never had any desire to use them.  I wish people had more
>>> confidence in their ability to create their own pattern and texture
>>> tools.  There's a good handout on the "Documents an Handouts" page of
>>> my website about making bisque stamps.  They are all I have ever used
>>> for the abundant pattern and texture on my work.  Sure, the influence
>>> for my stamps and rollers come from all sorts of historical sources,
>>> but I adapt them and make them my own.  It's amazing how many people
>>> think that the purchased tool somehow launches them ahead of the
>>> homemade tool, when exactly the opposite is true.
>>> - Vince
>>>
>>> Vince Pitelka
>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>> vincepitelka at gmail.com
>>> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com><http://www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>><http://www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com><http://www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>>>
>>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> On Behalf Of
>>> Carolyn Curran via Clayart
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2024 1:48 PM
>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
>>> clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>; Carolyn Curran <cncpots2 at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Carolyn Curran <cncpots2 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>>>
>>> I guess the internet and other almost instant forms of communication
>>> have increased the number of.people who try their hand at marketing
>>> pottery while using someone else's motif on a cookie cutter and
>>> someone else's design done with a purchased stamp or roller.  The
>>> availability of inexpensive microwave kilns and mini potter's wheels
>>> is also a factor in the abundance of  what I might call simple  bread and butter items found at
>>> many craft shows.   Yeah,  I  myself have used  "boughten" cookie cutters
>>> for ornaments and so have many other clay artists,  but all of a
>>> sudden I am seeing a TON  of these  look alike ornaments appearing on Ebay and Etsy
>>> and at shows.   I may be a clay snob,  but I bristle  when someone  shows
>>> me a "mass produceable" ornament or other small doodad  they have purchased
>>> at a craft show and compares it   favorably with a truly individual item.
>>> I don't begrudge them their inexpensive Christma tree decoration, but
>>> it's getting so that  the general public is beginning to think  of
>>> these items as examples of  creative craftsmanship.  They may be
>>> "handcrafted", but most of them are not examples of creativity  but of
>>> simple copy work.  Did ancient potters think this way when the potter's wheel came on the scene?
>>> And how about commercial glazes or other supplies  that are not made from
>>> scratch?  Plaster molds?  Laser cut  designs and 3D printers?   Thoughts
>>> from Carolyn, the potter currently. without studio
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--
Elisabeth Allison
Treasurer, Carp Farmers' Market Association
Pottery website: www.pine-ridge.ca<http://www.pine-ridge.ca>

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