[Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps

Tue Oct 29 11:50:33 UTC 2024

Hi Paul - 
Did I miss something?  Did someone "condemn purchased stamps and anything
not made by the artist?"  If so, I guess I missed it.  I did say that I
prefer to make my own stamps, and expressed my wish that more ceramic
artists felt confident about making their own tools.  I also said that I
have no problem with artists using commercially-made stamps.  I said that
making one's own stamps and tools does introduce an additional level of
originality in one's work.  I expect that you agree with all of that.
- Vince 

Vince Pitelka
Potter, Writer, Teacher
Chapel Hill, NC
vincepitelka at gmail.com 
www.vincepitelka.com 
https://chathamartistsguild.org/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> On Behalf Of Paul
Randall via Clayart
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 7:38 PM
To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
<clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
Cc: Paul Randall <paul at plrandall.com>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps

To All,
I think it is a bit pompous to condemn purchased stamps and anything not
made by the artist, incorporated into one's work. Remember Andy Warhol?

What is wrong with an artist stamping numbers from purchased number blocks
into their work? Remember the concept of "Found Objects" ?

I collect leaves from various tress and impress them into my work. Am I a
sinner for that since I didn't make the stamp? Am I not an Artist?

I use many natural stamps in my work, walnut shells in particular. I didn't
make them, but I use them in a way that is unique to me.

Purist? OK, be one. I was a remodeling contractor for twenty some years,
made pots on the side. Some of my customers were "Purist," only wanted real
wood, Cedar, Redwood etc. Redwood has been over farmed and on verge of
depletion. No treated wood for "Purists" only the kind that rots easily and
adds to global warming. Southern Yellow Pine is plentiful and when treated
last for 20+ years on a deck, etc..

I get it that making one's own tools and being completely "Hand Made" is
desirable in craft, most of my tools and stamps I made myself. But I have a
complete shop, if I need a tool, it is easy to go make one. Not everybody
has that, and I certainly will not condemn them for making do and applying
commercially made stamps, etc. into their work.

Look at the work, then judge. Please don't be blinded by the "Purist" ego
trip.
Paul

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________
From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> on behalf of Sharon
Cary via Clayart <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 1:11:07 PM
To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
<clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
Cc: Sharon Cary <scarythepotter at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps

I Love making Bisque stamps and rollers, but sometimes you find just the
right patterns that you can't easily replicate so I also use a lot of found
objects, pieces of fabric, as well as leather tools, MKM rollers, Pottery
Texture Queen Mats from my dear friend Lynn Wood - usually combined together
to make unique patterns on my handbuilt pieces. I also use some GR forms,
but the favorites are wood forms we've made ourselves in my spouse's
woodworking shop.  I have also made underglaze transfers and would never buy
those from others, although I've seen some creative applications with bits
of them added to other patterns.
All this to say we can abhor the "cookie cutter" copying but still admire
the creativity that comes from the judicious use of available tools to make
something unique.

Have fun, Terry with your change of direction!
I wish everyone More Clay and More Time to explore the endless ideas that
won't stop coming!

S.Cary -
Make something beautiful every day.
Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 27, 2024, at 12:10 PM, Terry Lazaroff via Clayart
<clayart at lists.clayartforum.com> wrote:
>
> Vince,
> You're not a snob, but you are a bit of a purist.
> A purist is someone who values traditional standards, principles, or
methods in their field, lifestyle, or activities. Purists tend to prioritize
authenticity and fidelity to original practices, often avoiding modern
adaptations that might dilute the core of what they value.
> For example, in art, a purist might favor classical techniques over
mass-produced or standardized approaches. In language, a purist may insist
on using traditional grammar and vocabulary, avoiding slang or borrowed
terms.
> There's nothing wrong with being a purist; it's about establishing a
disciplined process. When we teach wheel-throwing, we break down the process
into five or six steps and demonstrate the simplest method to help students
learn. We know that over time, students will modify our methods to find
their own, but when their approach fails, they often return to the basics to
figure out what went wrong. There are many technics used in hand building
that cannot be modified, thus the need to emphasize the need to follow the
traditional methods.
> It's understandable to feel frustrated when the public sees cookie cutter
items being designated as handmade. At craft shows, people often compliment
my wheel work, then mention how "lucky" I am to have a hobby. Seeing my
prices, they move on to booths selling less expensive cookie cutter items.
> Before industrialization, a potter was essential to a village, crafting
the bowls and cups for daily life. Today, mass-produced tableware is easily
accessible, so a ceramic artist must create something special to make a
sale; our cups and bowls have become "nice-to-have" items or iconic items to
place on a bookshelf and never to be used.
> Many buyers seek quality at low prices. For artists who stay in the field
long enough, these cookie cutter items may serve as kiln fillers while they
focus on higher-quality work.
> This summer, I turned 81, and I'll soon need to downsize my home and
studio. I've decided to stop making functional ware. I'll have one final
summer exhibition, and any remaining stock will be donated to the local
museum for fundraising.
> My focus is now on sculpture. I've started making rubber molds of my
ceramic sculptures to create bronze replicas. I'm also experimenting with 3D
scanning of my small sculptures in order to enlarge them, creating 3D prints
to make molds for wax models that will be taken to the foundry for further
processing.
> While this process may seem automated, I see it as a tool to realize my
creative vision.
> Terry
> AI assisted.
> www.lazaroff.ca<http://www.lazaroff.ca>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> on behalf of 
> Vince Pitelka via Clayart <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2024 8:54 AM
> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum' 
> <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
> Cc: vincepitelka at gmail.com <vincepitelka at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>
> Hi LJ -
> You wrote:
> "It's how those items are used that shows the creativity of the artist not
whether or not the artist has made each of those tools."
>
> Yes, absolutely.  I just think that making some of your own tools and
stamps introduces an additional level of originality to anyone's work.  I
always encouraged my students to look for interesting patterned or textured
objects that could be used on clay, and they were very resourceful in the
forests around the Appalachian Center for Craft.  I would never say anything
to discourage people from buying Rick McKinney's stamps and rollers, or any
other commercially-made pattern or texture tools.  But I have also found
that people are often hesitant to make their own tools because they assume
that store-bought tools will be better than any they can make themselves,
and that's usually not true.
>
> This conversation has come up many times on Clayart.  During the
approximately 15 years that I wrote the Tool Times column in Clay Times
magazine, a good percentage of my writing was about making your own tools.
Unfortunately, the magazines are not available for free online.  ISSUU.com
has them for $5.95 per PDF copy.  As a teaser they let you leaf through the
first twenty pages or so online, but not far enough to get to my column.
>
> Regarding bisque stamps, check out the handout on my website.  It is
remarkably easy to make bisque rollers and stamps with intricate patterns
and textures.  If anyone is interested, look at the "Current and Recent
Work" in the gallery on my website to see some of the patterns I create with
the bisque stamps and rollers I have carved.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Potter, Writer, Teacher
> Chapel Hill, NC
> vincepitelka at gmail.com
> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com><http://www.vincepite
> lka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>>
> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> On Behalf Of 
> Dragonbelly Ceramics via Clayart
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2024 9:25 PM
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum 
> <clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>
> Cc: Dragonbelly Ceramics <lisa at dragonbellyceramics.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>
> But where do you draw the line? I use all sorts of found objects to
texture pieces, from leaves from my garden to lace found at yard sales.
While I do make bisque stamps, I've also purchased some rollers. Why? I'm
not that skilled in carving designs.  I've even designed and 3D printed
some. And I occasionally use printed letters.
>
> It's how those items are used that shows the creativity of the artist not
whether or not the artist has made each of those tools.
>
> Another example: I use a strong arm centering tool to accommodate for
arthritic changes in my wrists and thumbs. Without it, I can't center more
than a small amount of clay before experiencing severe pain and I would have
had to give up throwing a few years ago.
>
> I just don't believe there are hard answers for what is or is not
handmade.
>
> Best,
> LJ Cohen
>
>
>
>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2024, 7:06 PM Vince Pitelka via Clayart <
clayart at lists.clayartforum.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Carolyn -
>> Thanks for that message.  As much as I admire Rick McKinney and 
>> others who have created all sorts of pattern and texture tools for 
>> ceramics, I've never had any desire to use them.  I wish people had 
>> more confidence in their ability to create their own pattern and 
>> texture tools.  There's a good handout on the "Documents an Handouts" 
>> page of my website about making bisque stamps.  They are all I have 
>> ever used for the abundant pattern and texture on my work.  Sure, the 
>> influence for my stamps and rollers come from all sorts of historical 
>> sources, but I adapt them and make them my own.  It's amazing how 
>> many people think that the purchased tool somehow launches them ahead 
>> of the homemade tool, when exactly the opposite is true.
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>> Chapel Hill, NC
>> vincepitelka at gmail.com
>> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com><http://www.vincepit
>> elka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>>
>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartforum.com> On Behalf Of 
>> Carolyn Curran via Clayart
>> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2024 1:48 PM
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum < 
>> clayart at lists.clayartforum.com>; Carolyn Curran <cncpots2 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Carolyn Curran <cncpots2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Clayart] Cookie cutters and commercial stamps
>>
>> I guess the internet and other almost instant forms of communication 
>> have increased the number of.people who try their hand at marketing 
>> pottery while using someone else's motif on a cookie cutter and 
>> someone else's design done with a purchased stamp or roller.  The 
>> availability of inexpensive microwave kilns and mini potter's wheels 
>> is also a factor in the abundance of  what I might call simple  bread and
butter items found at
>> many craft shows.   Yeah,  I  myself have used  "boughten" cookie cutters
>> for ornaments and so have many other clay artists,  but all of a 
>> sudden I am seeing a TON  of these  look alike ornaments appearing on
Ebay and Etsy
>> and at shows.   I may be a clay snob,  but I bristle  when someone  shows
>> me a "mass produceable" ornament or other small doodad  they have
purchased
>> at a craft show and compares it   favorably with a truly individual item.
>> I don't begrudge them their inexpensive Christma tree decoration, but 
>> it's getting so that  the general public is beginning to think  of 
>> these items as examples of  creative craftsmanship.  They may be 
>> "handcrafted", but most of them are not examples of creativity  but 
>> of simple copy work.  Did ancient potters think this way when the
potter's wheel came on the scene?
>> And how about commercial glazes or other supplies  that are not made from
>> scratch?  Plaster molds?  Laser cut  designs and 3D printers?   Thoughts
>> from Carolyn, the potter currently. without studio
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