[Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS

Tue May 3 22:23:58 UTC 2022

VInce - I certainly didn't intend to be quite as dismissive of the flap
wheel as I must have sounded, although I do worry about sanding dust in
general.

And of course one's own particular situation is always at the forefront of
one's mind.

1. I work in a shared space, and I have seen some truly horrendous abuse of
grinding wheels and pots. (e.g. Grinding off massive chunks of dripped
glazes). Sanding of bisque (inside) is also a massive bugbear of mine
inside a shared studio.

2. I work in nasty, white, boring, baby-butt smooth porcelain (as mel would
say) and I almost always glaze the insides of my foot rings. Between the
two of those things, wet grinding is a better solution (flap wheels tend to
scratch the glaze inside of the footrings, even if you're careful, and
porcelain can get beautifully smooth with the diamond pads.). For vapour
firing like you do, I definitely see the convenience of the flap wheel. We
have a soda kiln and while it's not really my thing I can certainly see
what you would be going for and why a flap wheel would actually work better
in that situation (don't want to remove that soda beauty on the bottoms,
which diamond pads might well do).

Robert

On Tue, 3 May 2022 at 09:49, <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:

> Hi Robert -
> I have always been a tool/machinery person and an innovator, tinkering,
> repairing, building, looking for better ways of doing things.  Being a
> compulsive teacher (a good trait when you make your living at it), I love
> to share information.  After over 50 years of full-time professional
> involvement in studio ceramics, I do know what I'm talking about most of
> the time, and as an educator I was always super safety-conscious.  The
> information you gave was good, solid information, but it was presented in a
> way that pretty much dismissed the abrasive flap wheel, and I felt that I
> needed to speak up in support of that approach.  It really does work great,
> and there is no noticeable dust (one should still always wear a dust
> mask).
>
> I do have some graded flexible diamond sanding pads that I use to fix
> small glaze defects.  That is essential for salt, soda, or wood-firing.  I
> always use them wet, because they work better that way.  But for the feet,
> I'll keep using the flap wheel.
>
> I won't be coming through Denver this summer, but I often do when heading
> out west.  Next time, I'll contact you.  Over the years, I have met many
> Clayarters in person after getting to know them on the list, and it has
> always been a wonderful experience.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Potter, Writer, Teacher
> Chapel Hill, NC
> vpitelka at dtccom.net
> www.vincepitelka.com
> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
> Robert Harris
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 11:03 PM
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
>
> Vince,
>
> I found the blog post, by Jeff Campana, that I remember where he uses an
> angle grinder. He mounts it so that it doesn't need to be held.
>
> https://jeffcampana.com/foot-fetish/
>
> I suppose I get snarky because it always seems like you never want to
> admit that there are always a number of ways to skin a cat. You come across
> (to
> me) as thinking your way is the be all and end all.
>
> I certainly hope we can meet sometime. If you ever come out Denver way let
> me know.
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 18:48, <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Robert -
> > Your response was to mine, and my response was to yours, and for
> > reasons I do not understand, you often include snarky comments when we
> > disagree on something.  I have no idea why you do that but I wish you
> would stop.
> >
> > I read your whole post, and it did not upset me in any way.  Do you
> > really think I am sitting around getting upset over stuff like that?
> > I wish you knew me better.  Maybe someday we will have a chance to
> > meet in person.  I hope so.
> >
> > The angle grinder solution makes no sense regardless of what
> > attachments are available, because how do you hold the pot while you
> > are holding the angle grinder with the other hand?  An angle grinder
> > requires two hands to be used safely.  With the bench grinder and flap
> > wheel, you are holding the pot with both hands, so there is no chance
> > of anything going wrong.  For anyone who is especially concerned about
> > silica, install (or move) the bench grinder outside and do the sanding
> or grinding out there.
> >
> > A bench grinder with a flap wheel and a grinding wheel is one of the
> > most versatile and useful shop tools a person can own.  You can't go
> > wrong with it.
> >
> > The flap wheel on a bench grinder has worked wonderfully for me for
> > over
> > 40 years.  The ones (we had several of different grits) at the
> > Appalachian Center for Craft were installed outdoors under roof, but
> > my own bench grinder with flap wheel has always been in my own
> > workshop or studio.  As mentioned, I do wear a dust mask whenever
> sanding or grinding pots.
> > - Vince
> >
> > Vince Pitelka
> > Potter, Writer, Teacher
> > Chapel Hill, NC
> > vpitelka at dtccom.net
> > www.vincepitelka.com
> > https://chathamartistsguild.org/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
> > Robert Harris
> > Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 12:50 PM
> > To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
> > clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
> >
> > Vince - obviously I don't think I'm over reacting, or I wouldn't have
> > said anything. Each to our own. Personally I believe that grinding and
> > sanding, however lightly, is far worse for flinging silica into the
> > air than measuring out silica for glazes, and we're pretty obsessive
> about that.
> >
> > Of course, since I really haven't ever heard of a studio potter who
> > doesn't smoke getting silicosis (especially in the last 20 or 30 years
> > when we've become significantly more aware) there is no decent
> > evidence that any of it really matters.
> >
> > As to the flat discs, you're absolutely right. But you obviously
> > haven't looked around at what is available. There are actually a
> > number of products around that do conform to pot bottoms. There are
> > wet grinders that have little rubber fingers coated in diamond. There
> > are discs made of plastic fibers that compress and conform. If you
> > want a DIY solution I have used a piece of carpet with silicon carbide
> > powder sprinkled on it. conforms very well to pot bottoms.
> > As for slowness, you obviously didn't read my entire post very
> > thoroughly (since you were probably annoyed as soon as I disagreed
> > with you) as the wet angle grinder solution I mentioned is just as
> > fast as a flap grinder, and the pads available also conform nicely to
> > pot bottoms. As I mentioned, the granite countertop installers have
> pretty much done all of this for us.
> > (And there's a good reason they do everything wet).
> >
> > Anyway, you do you, and I'll do me and I'm merely offering an
> > alternative to other readers who might also be concerned about using
> grinders.
> >
> > On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 09:21, <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Robert -
> > > If we were talking about really grinding the bottoms, dust would be
> > > an issue, but a light sanding with the abrasive flap wheel is enough
> > > to remove the grit and thus smooth the bottoms, and no noticeable
> > > dust is
> > produced.
> > > I do wear a dust mask while doing this, but your warning here is an
> > > overreaction.  The rigid diamond disks you write about that are
> > > placed on the wheelhead only sand a flat surface and very few pot
> > > bottoms are perfectly flat.  The abrasive flap wheel conforms to the
> > > irregular surface and gives a lovely smooth surface.  My customers
> > > love the smooth bottoms on my pots.
> > >
> > > Diamond sanding pads also do not effectively conform to an irregular
> > > foot or bottom, and they are SLOW.
> > > - Vince
> > >
> > > Vince Pitelka
> > > Potter, Writer, Teacher
> > > Chapel Hill, NC
> > > vpitelka at dtccom.net
> > > www.vincepitelka.com
> > > https://chathamartistsguild.org/
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
> > > Robert Harris
> > > Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 7:44 AM
> > > To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
> > > clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
> > >
> > > Personally, I'm really against using bench grinders because of the
> > > amount of silica dust they put out. and the 2.5 micron stuff that
> > > really harms your lungs stays in the air for 24 hours before
> > > settling (so wearing a mask while you're doing it doesn't really cover
> you).
> > > Unfortunately, the dust that makes you cough (10+ microns) isn't the
> > > bad
> > stuff.
> > > Now admittedly, very very few studio potters get silicosis (and in
> > > the ones that do it's almost always co-caused by smoking), but why
> > > add to the risk?
> > >
> > > These days there are plenty of diamond grit solutions (like Hank
> > > mentioned) that fit on a wheel that allow water grinding.
> > > I've also seen solutions where people use air powered angle grinders
> > > combined with water (which is essentially how they cut granite
> > > countertops) if you really have a need for speed. If you look at the
> > > granite countertop industry in general, they solved these problems
> > > years ago (most of the diamond pads etc are sold to them).
> > >
> > >  All in all, wet sanding is much, much safer.
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 1, 2022, 13:55 <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I wrote about this in one of my Clay Times columns.  I am always
> > > > looking for efficient ways of doing things without sacrificing
> > > > quality and craftsmanship.  I soda fire to cone-8 and sand the
> > > > bottoms or feet of every piece.  I've always done that, and when I
> > > > was a production studio potter in Northern California that was a
> > > > hell
> > of a lot of pots.
> > > > I discovered abrasive flap wheels around 1975 and since them have
> > > > always used them to sand the bottoms.
> > > >
> > > > Search Amazon for "Norton Metalite R265 Abrasive Flap Wheel, 1"
> > > > Arbor, Round Hole, Aluminum Oxide, 6" Dia., 1" Face Width, Grit
> > > > 120,
> > > > 6200 Max RPM" but be sure to also get "Norton Aluminum Reducing
> > > > Bushing for 4 -
> > > > 6 Abrasive Flap and Convolute Wheel, Reduces Hole Size to 1/2, 1
> > > > Arbor
> > > > Model: 66261080523."
> > > > Those are the bushings you need to adapt to the 1/2" arbor on your
> > > > bench grinder.  You'll only have to buy the bushings once, because
> > > > they fit all flap wheels with a 1" center hole.
> > > >
> > > > If you happen to have a spare 1/4 to 1/2 HP electric motor around,
> > > > you can get a "motor shaft arbor extension" to fit the 1/2" or 5/8"
> > > > motor
> > > shaft.
> > > > It
> > > > features a 1/2" arbor to mount the abrasive flap wheel.  That's
> > > > what I did when I had Railroad Stoneware.  I mounted the motor on
> > > > a stand, and sanded the bottoms of every pot as I unloaded the car
> kiln.
> > > >
> > > > If you don't have a an appropriate electric motor lying around,
> > > > you are best off buying a bench grinder, because they are no more
> > > > expensive than a new electric motor.  They are very reasonably
> > > > priced, and you can use them to sharpen your trimming tools and
> > > > shape your modeling tools.  The Skil 6"
> > > > bench grinder I got for my studio does not seem to be available,
> > > > but the
> > > > "G9717 6" Bench Grinder with 1/2" Arbor" from grizzly.com for $57
> > > > is a good deal.  Grizzly Industrial does a good job of maintaining
> > > > high quality on the products they sell.  Mount the grinder on a
> > > > table or workbench in your studio or buy a stand for it.  I have a
> > > > bench grinder in my workshop and a second one in my studio that
> > > > has a grinding wheel on one end for grinding off glaze runs and
> > > > soda deposits, and a abrasive flap wheel on the other end for
> > > > sanding the bottoms.  It makes quick work of the sanding.
> > > >
> > > > I bought two of the "WEN 4288T Cast Iron Bench Grinder Pedestal
> Stand"
> > > > from Amazon for $56 apiece for my bench grinders, and they worked
> > > > out
> > > great.
> > > > They are a bargain.
> > > >
> > > > If you buy a bench grinder for this application, remove the
> > > > grinding wheel from one end and save it as a spare, and then
> > > > remove the guard and the tool rest from that end as well in order
> > > > to give maximum access to the flap wheel when sanding your work.
> > > > NEVER REMOVE THE GUARD ON A GRINDING WHEEL, but with a flap wheel,
> > > > the guard is just in the way.  The grit and bits of fabric thrown
> > > > off by a flap wheel will do you no harm as long as you ALWAYS WEAR
> > > > PROPER EYE PROTECTION whenever using any sort of grinder or sander.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a bit of common sense shop safety protocol for bench grinders.
> > > > This is not so important in your own studio or workshop, but a
> > > > very good habit to develop for the occasions when you use a bench
> > > > grinder somewhere else.  If someone was walking through the
> > > > workshop or studio with a length of angle iron or a long
> > > > two-by-four and accidently whacked one end against the grinding
> > > > wheel on a bench grinder and cracked it, the wheel would likely
> > > > explode from centrifugal force upon startup.  So, as standard
> > > > protocol, always stand off to the side when you start a bench
> > > > grinder with a grinding wheel.  That way you're out of the line of
> > > > fire.  Staying out of the line of fire is very important whenever
> > > > people are using power tools or machine tools and equipment.
> > > > - Vince
> > > >
> > > > Vince Pitelka
> > > > Potter, Writer, Teacher
> > > > Chapel Hill, NC
> > > > vpitelka at dtccom.net
> > > > www.vincepitelka.com
> > > > https://chathamartistsguild.org/
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf
> > > > Of Mike Gordon
> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 6:22 PM
> > > > To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
> > > > <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> > > > Subject: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
> > > >
> > > > Does anybody else have this problem??? All the feet on my bowls,
> > > > cups have to be sanded smooth. Otherwise they feel like sand paper!
> > > > Mike Gordon Cone
> > > > 6
> > > > in a gas kiln.=
> > > >
> > > >
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