[Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS

Tue May 3 15:47:37 UTC 2022

Hi Robert - 
I have always been a tool/machinery person and an innovator, tinkering, repairing, building, looking for better ways of doing things.  Being a compulsive teacher (a good trait when you make your living at it), I love to share information.  After over 50 years of full-time professional involvement in studio ceramics, I do know what I'm talking about most of the time, and as an educator I was always super safety-conscious.  The information you gave was good, solid information, but it was presented in a way that pretty much dismissed the abrasive flap wheel, and I felt that I needed to speak up in support of that approach.  It really does work great, and there is no noticeable dust (one should still always wear a dust mask).  

I do have some graded flexible diamond sanding pads that I use to fix small glaze defects.  That is essential for salt, soda, or wood-firing.  I always use them wet, because they work better that way.  But for the feet, I'll keep using the flap wheel.  

I won't be coming through Denver this summer, but I often do when heading out west.  Next time, I'll contact you.  Over the years, I have met many Clayarters in person after getting to know them on the list, and it has always been a wonderful experience.   
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Potter, Writer, Teacher
Chapel Hill, NC
vpitelka at dtccom.net
www.vincepitelka.com 
https://chathamartistsguild.org/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of Robert Harris
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 11:03 PM
To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS

Vince,

I found the blog post, by Jeff Campana, that I remember where he uses an angle grinder. He mounts it so that it doesn't need to be held.

https://jeffcampana.com/foot-fetish/

I suppose I get snarky because it always seems like you never want to admit that there are always a number of ways to skin a cat. You come across (to
me) as thinking your way is the be all and end all.

I certainly hope we can meet sometime. If you ever come out Denver way let me know.

Robert

On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 18:48, <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:

> Hi Robert -
> Your response was to mine, and my response was to yours, and for 
> reasons I do not understand, you often include snarky comments when we 
> disagree on something.  I have no idea why you do that but I wish you would stop.
>
> I read your whole post, and it did not upset me in any way.  Do you 
> really think I am sitting around getting upset over stuff like that?  
> I wish you knew me better.  Maybe someday we will have a chance to 
> meet in person.  I hope so.
>
> The angle grinder solution makes no sense regardless of what 
> attachments are available, because how do you hold the pot while you 
> are holding the angle grinder with the other hand?  An angle grinder 
> requires two hands to be used safely.  With the bench grinder and flap 
> wheel, you are holding the pot with both hands, so there is no chance 
> of anything going wrong.  For anyone who is especially concerned about 
> silica, install (or move) the bench grinder outside and do the sanding or grinding out there.
>
> A bench grinder with a flap wheel and a grinding wheel is one of the 
> most versatile and useful shop tools a person can own.  You can't go 
> wrong with it.
>
> The flap wheel on a bench grinder has worked wonderfully for me for 
> over
> 40 years.  The ones (we had several of different grits) at the 
> Appalachian Center for Craft were installed outdoors under roof, but 
> my own bench grinder with flap wheel has always been in my own 
> workshop or studio.  As mentioned, I do wear a dust mask whenever sanding or grinding pots.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Potter, Writer, Teacher
> Chapel Hill, NC
> vpitelka at dtccom.net
> www.vincepitelka.com
> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of 
> Robert Harris
> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 12:50 PM
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum < 
> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
>
> Vince - obviously I don't think I'm over reacting, or I wouldn't have 
> said anything. Each to our own. Personally I believe that grinding and 
> sanding, however lightly, is far worse for flinging silica into the 
> air than measuring out silica for glazes, and we're pretty obsessive about that.
>
> Of course, since I really haven't ever heard of a studio potter who 
> doesn't smoke getting silicosis (especially in the last 20 or 30 years 
> when we've become significantly more aware) there is no decent 
> evidence that any of it really matters.
>
> As to the flat discs, you're absolutely right. But you obviously 
> haven't looked around at what is available. There are actually a 
> number of products around that do conform to pot bottoms. There are 
> wet grinders that have little rubber fingers coated in diamond. There 
> are discs made of plastic fibers that compress and conform. If you 
> want a DIY solution I have used a piece of carpet with silicon carbide 
> powder sprinkled on it. conforms very well to pot bottoms.
> As for slowness, you obviously didn't read my entire post very 
> thoroughly (since you were probably annoyed as soon as I disagreed 
> with you) as the wet angle grinder solution I mentioned is just as 
> fast as a flap grinder, and the pads available also conform nicely to 
> pot bottoms. As I mentioned, the granite countertop installers have pretty much done all of this for us.
> (And there's a good reason they do everything wet).
>
> Anyway, you do you, and I'll do me and I'm merely offering an 
> alternative to other readers who might also be concerned about using grinders.
>
> On Mon, 2 May 2022 at 09:21, <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi Robert -
> > If we were talking about really grinding the bottoms, dust would be 
> > an issue, but a light sanding with the abrasive flap wheel is enough 
> > to remove the grit and thus smooth the bottoms, and no noticeable 
> > dust is
> produced.
> > I do wear a dust mask while doing this, but your warning here is an 
> > overreaction.  The rigid diamond disks you write about that are 
> > placed on the wheelhead only sand a flat surface and very few pot 
> > bottoms are perfectly flat.  The abrasive flap wheel conforms to the 
> > irregular surface and gives a lovely smooth surface.  My customers 
> > love the smooth bottoms on my pots.
> >
> > Diamond sanding pads also do not effectively conform to an irregular 
> > foot or bottom, and they are SLOW.
> > - Vince
> >
> > Vince Pitelka
> > Potter, Writer, Teacher
> > Chapel Hill, NC
> > vpitelka at dtccom.net
> > www.vincepitelka.com
> > https://chathamartistsguild.org/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of 
> > Robert Harris
> > Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 7:44 AM
> > To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum < 
> > clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
> >
> > Personally, I'm really against using bench grinders because of the 
> > amount of silica dust they put out. and the 2.5 micron stuff that 
> > really harms your lungs stays in the air for 24 hours before 
> > settling (so wearing a mask while you're doing it doesn't really cover you).
> > Unfortunately, the dust that makes you cough (10+ microns) isn't the 
> > bad
> stuff.
> > Now admittedly, very very few studio potters get silicosis (and in 
> > the ones that do it's almost always co-caused by smoking), but why 
> > add to the risk?
> >
> > These days there are plenty of diamond grit solutions (like Hank
> > mentioned) that fit on a wheel that allow water grinding.
> > I've also seen solutions where people use air powered angle grinders 
> > combined with water (which is essentially how they cut granite
> > countertops) if you really have a need for speed. If you look at the 
> > granite countertop industry in general, they solved these problems 
> > years ago (most of the diamond pads etc are sold to them).
> >
> >  All in all, wet sanding is much, much safer.
> >
> > On Sun, May 1, 2022, 13:55 <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I wrote about this in one of my Clay Times columns.  I am always 
> > > looking for efficient ways of doing things without sacrificing 
> > > quality and craftsmanship.  I soda fire to cone-8 and sand the 
> > > bottoms or feet of every piece.  I've always done that, and when I 
> > > was a production studio potter in Northern California that was a 
> > > hell
> of a lot of pots.
> > > I discovered abrasive flap wheels around 1975 and since them have 
> > > always used them to sand the bottoms.
> > >
> > > Search Amazon for "Norton Metalite R265 Abrasive Flap Wheel, 1"
> > > Arbor, Round Hole, Aluminum Oxide, 6" Dia., 1" Face Width, Grit 
> > > 120,
> > > 6200 Max RPM" but be sure to also get "Norton Aluminum Reducing 
> > > Bushing for 4 -
> > > 6 Abrasive Flap and Convolute Wheel, Reduces Hole Size to 1/2, 1 
> > > Arbor
> > > Model: 66261080523."
> > > Those are the bushings you need to adapt to the 1/2" arbor on your 
> > > bench grinder.  You'll only have to buy the bushings once, because 
> > > they fit all flap wheels with a 1" center hole.
> > >
> > > If you happen to have a spare 1/4 to 1/2 HP electric motor around, 
> > > you can get a "motor shaft arbor extension" to fit the 1/2" or 5/8"
> > > motor
> > shaft.
> > > It
> > > features a 1/2" arbor to mount the abrasive flap wheel.  That's 
> > > what I did when I had Railroad Stoneware.  I mounted the motor on 
> > > a stand, and sanded the bottoms of every pot as I unloaded the car kiln.
> > >
> > > If you don't have a an appropriate electric motor lying around, 
> > > you are best off buying a bench grinder, because they are no more 
> > > expensive than a new electric motor.  They are very reasonably 
> > > priced, and you can use them to sharpen your trimming tools and 
> > > shape your modeling tools.  The Skil 6"
> > > bench grinder I got for my studio does not seem to be available, 
> > > but the
> > > "G9717 6" Bench Grinder with 1/2" Arbor" from grizzly.com for $57 
> > > is a good deal.  Grizzly Industrial does a good job of maintaining 
> > > high quality on the products they sell.  Mount the grinder on a 
> > > table or workbench in your studio or buy a stand for it.  I have a 
> > > bench grinder in my workshop and a second one in my studio that 
> > > has a grinding wheel on one end for grinding off glaze runs and 
> > > soda deposits, and a abrasive flap wheel on the other end for 
> > > sanding the bottoms.  It makes quick work of the sanding.
> > >
> > > I bought two of the "WEN 4288T Cast Iron Bench Grinder Pedestal Stand"
> > > from Amazon for $56 apiece for my bench grinders, and they worked 
> > > out
> > great.
> > > They are a bargain.
> > >
> > > If you buy a bench grinder for this application, remove the 
> > > grinding wheel from one end and save it as a spare, and then 
> > > remove the guard and the tool rest from that end as well in order 
> > > to give maximum access to the flap wheel when sanding your work.  
> > > NEVER REMOVE THE GUARD ON A GRINDING WHEEL, but with a flap wheel, 
> > > the guard is just in the way.  The grit and bits of fabric thrown 
> > > off by a flap wheel will do you no harm as long as you ALWAYS WEAR 
> > > PROPER EYE PROTECTION whenever using any sort of grinder or sander.
> > >
> > > Here's a bit of common sense shop safety protocol for bench grinders.
> > > This is not so important in your own studio or workshop, but a 
> > > very good habit to develop for the occasions when you use a bench 
> > > grinder somewhere else.  If someone was walking through the 
> > > workshop or studio with a length of angle iron or a long 
> > > two-by-four and accidently whacked one end against the grinding 
> > > wheel on a bench grinder and cracked it, the wheel would likely 
> > > explode from centrifugal force upon startup.  So, as standard 
> > > protocol, always stand off to the side when you start a bench 
> > > grinder with a grinding wheel.  That way you're out of the line of 
> > > fire.  Staying out of the line of fire is very important whenever 
> > > people are using power tools or machine tools and equipment.
> > > - Vince
> > >
> > > Vince Pitelka
> > > Potter, Writer, Teacher
> > > Chapel Hill, NC
> > > vpitelka at dtccom.net
> > > www.vincepitelka.com
> > > https://chathamartistsguild.org/
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf 
> > > Of Mike Gordon
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 6:22 PM
> > > To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum 
> > > <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> > > Subject: [Clayart] SANDY BOTTOMS
> > >
> > > Does anybody else have this problem??? All the feet on my bowls, 
> > > cups have to be sanded smooth. Otherwise they feel like sand paper!
> > > Mike Gordon Cone
> > > 6
> > > in a gas kiln.=
> > >
> > >
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